Hi Jason. In the beginning, I’d like to ask you about your trip to St.Petersburg, Russia in 1998. Not many DJs have been ever in Russia. What was behind your trip?
Swinscoe: I knew a guy from St.Petersburg, who owns a shop there and had some relationship to Ninjatune. He heard about this club I’m involved in called ‚Loop‘ in London and then he organized the visit. Before that I went to Moscow and played in a kind of dancehall, which was seated like a classroom at the beginning of the night and maybe midnight they took all the chairs and tables away and made a disco out of it, that was quite funny in a way.
How is the difference for you like, to play on one hand in Europe or the US and on the other hand in a country like Russia?
Swinscoe: The difference is in the attitude of the crowd. In London for example, you have so many clubs by now and when a DJ is playing it’s not more a special thing. In Petersburg my concert became a big event, very well promoted. I was the first Ninjatune-DJ to come over to Russia and the crowd was really happy, they were just hearing some kind of different music and it gave a good vibe to them.
And coming to Germany, a good feeling?
Swinscoe: Yeah, it’s good. It’s different again. I’m going to a lot of different countries, where is a different response to different styles of music. As a DJ I can play an eclectic range from all of funk and african music or jazz or some dance stuff but every session is different. Recently I played in Wuppertal and the hiphop was not going at all, they loved lots of latin there. But you don’t know that before, you have to find it out as you are playing records…
…feeling the attidude of the crowd.
Swinscoe: Of course, I’m a DJ and interested in a good vibe, that people come a bit out of time and can relax. So you can catch a crowd with diffenrent styles of music, develop that, change the style, take something out of it and see how it works. Every audience is different and the first half of the evening you have to find things out. That’s why I enjoy visiting other cities, meet nice people, playing in different clubs, which usually are pretty cool, for different audiences.
What would life mean to you without a sampling machine?
Swinscoe: If I didn’t actually get a sample I’ll go back to instruments, live instruments. I have played Guitar and Bass-Guitar until a few years ago but I kind of gave it up and turned to turntables, electronics and computers. But if they did not exist there would be other instruments – that’s not impossible for me. Tomorrow my house and everything could be stolen, but I still could make some sounds, you can make rythm or sound out of everything in your household, really. With all objects in here [a restaurant somewhere in Berlins Prenzlberg] you can make acoustic sounds. So in a way you can spoil of having so much technology. Technology develops so strongly, you can do everything with the computer now, record instruments, sample… – what ever you want.
And do you use the internet for sampling, so has sampling reached a new dimension caused by the development of internet?
Swinscoe: I know a lot of people, who use the internet to source sounds, using a lot of free sites, where you can download just kind of anything, samples, loops etc. and there is a very wide source material. But if everybody uses this material, the sound becomes very familiar. It’s like someone buying a synthesizer, which has a limit of sounds and if you use this sound in every track you end up having a very specific sound. I take little things from the internet and from sample-cds but in general I spend a lot of time going out to record shops, buying new stuff. For example I just recently found a guy from Germany, Stefan Micus who makes music out of ceramic plots, he fills them with soil in different levels and plays on them. I’m looking for a big variety of sounds.
And what’s your border in sampling, is there a point, when you won’t go further, because people know, that you haven’t produced the sound by yourself?
Swinscoe: We now have a danceculure of about 20 years, which involves sampling. When you think, before that in the 50’s up to the 70’s bands were ripping other bands of by actually playing, so it was not sampling, it was actually copying, but copied on an instrument. Things have been going on since day one, so it is not a new phenomenon that people sample pieces of music. It was Charlie Hayden a jazz bass player he ripped off an old funk bass line, which then in the late 60ies got ripped of by The Clash and zhey had a huge hit from it. And there was that dilemma in terms of copyright and ownership and people were saying to Charlie Hayden, ‚you gonna suit them‘. But he did not, because he ripped of from someone else, so in the end nobody knows, who actually owns the sound. Or the Rolling Stones recently suited a Band from the UK, because they used some string-section of the Stones. But the Rolling Stones themselves ripped a lot of Blues – so it’s hard to say, where does it start, where does it stop. Ninjatune is a sample-based label, starting with Coldcut in the 80ies with some sample-based music. And everytime, when Ninja releases an album, everything is checked because the label is growing – when you are selling more records, then more and more publishers are looking out for the ownership and they can make good money with it. So a piece of music, which was not successful, when it was released now can make a lot of money, that’s healthy for the musician behind the piece it is a kind of re-recognition for him in a younger culture.
The history of Ninjatune is also a bit the history of Jason Swinscoe – what do you like about this label?
Swinscoe: In a lot of ways Ninja tries to promote young producers and gives them a platform, to release music, that is quite leftfield, maybe for some people quite difficult music. But before all it’s interesting music and Ninjatune still is going on strong, now after more than 10 years with a healthy perspective also concerning the business-side.
Does Ninjatune really fear the internet?
Swinscoe: So just think of ten years ago the problems with bootlegging, a problem that still exists for example in Eastern Europe. That happens with so many styles of music and will go on in the future. On the internet it’s the same and called ‚free download‘. Maybe a small label like Ninjatune has to be a bit concerned about the internet. But the other side is that music is heard by more and more people. So it happens that people hear the music on the internet, they like it and finally they buy it.
What do you think about the future of vinyl?
Swinscoe: I think vinyl always will be around, mainly in the dj-culture. Of course, in the UK the vinyl-manufacturing is getting smaller and smaller, only one ore two manufacturies are left. And in Japan they have only one factory for vinyl, which has a huge waiting list, because of its quality, they produce very heavy vinyl. It’s very expensive and the record-companies do not have a real profit from it. But vinyl also became very trendy, and there are a few independent bands releasing their albums only in vinyl.
What was your aim, when you started to to create and produce music?
Swinscoe: Since I have been making music with computers and samplers I wanted to enjoy it, just making music, which I wanted to hear. There was no special idea or goal or bigger aim. But in the back of my mind was, that it would be nice developing music, which could be released. I just wanted to try things out, combine some sounds and see what happens. It takes you a couple of years to sort out. And it’s still a developing process. I studie at art-college and I was quite into the conceptual work of the 60ies and 70ies and a lot of contemporary concepts, sculptures and paintings. In a way I’m continuing ideas, I had that time, but now with a different medium, using the sound. At college I played in a kind of guitar-based band, already working with computers and samples, so we had to deal already with different parameters. And with these parameters you got to learn, that music can go into a different direction as you planned. For us it was quite interesting putting the different parameters together and have an electronic, sample-based backround combined with live instruments.
In which way you work with samples at the moment?
Swinscoe: I’m working on the next album, which contains ideas, based on samples from old records. I’m writing melodies and harmonies based on and inspired by these samples, the sample itself eventually is thrown away. Our bass player in the band, Phil, he is in hold with me concerning the writing process and we work a lot together. He studied jazz and classical music and has a very strong backround in composition. That can work quite well, my understanding of electronics and contemporary music combined with his understanding of jazz and classical music.
Live musicians and samples – does it always fit together?
Swinscoe: I think, there is a lot of scope in it, the musicians are involved from the first recording on and then we do a lot of live-touring, which actually brings everbody closer together, then we actually work together as a unit. At the beginning of Cinematic Orchestra the musicians came to the studio, played together and it was more like session-work. Now it’s a bit more like a unity and we feel like a band, working out much more variety. The new album will have a lot of different things on it, things with more electronics, tracks with vocalists, really dancefloortracks. I like it, you can do a lot of different styles because everybody brings in different ideas.
At least because of filmmusic your bands name is ‚Cinematic Orchestra‘ and especially the filmmusic of the 60ies and 70ies plays an essential role in your music. Bernard Hermann – an idol for you?
Swinscoe: Yeah, one of my idols. He has written some amazing music, and music which can stand up on its own, rather than be only an accompaniment for a film. He made very strong music and had strong musical ideas.
What’s fascinating in filmmusic for you?
Swinscoe: Soundtrackmusic is written differently from pop, rock or jazzmusic. The basic concepts are different. A lot of interesting ideas in filmmusic are really composed and constructed, because the music should do something, reaching some effects. I always liked film, hearing filmmusic in the backround, narrative in dialogue with the film. Filmmusic often combines a lot of music styles, but it’s a different way, how these styles are put together. There is filmmusic, which you can take away from the film, which exists on its own and it still has an idea of a story, an idea of emotions and feelings.
What about todays filmmusic, composers like James Horner, John Williams, Hans Zimmer, David Arnold – for me todays filmmusic, compared with the music from the 60ies and 70ies is mostly boring.
Swinscoe: I agree, often filmmusic is still composed in an old fashioned way and sounds very usual. But in the last few years a lot of contemporary dance producers have been asked to do music for films. For these producers it’s a kind of niche, because usually they are not involved in the film world. There are a few young directors who are interested in crossing over, cutting out the boring bullshit and getting young producers to have a different prospective on it. That should be explored much more.
If life was a comic, which role would you play?
Swinscoe: When I was young I’d used to watch Charlie Brown a lot and in a way I was fascinated. But maybe I’m more like the drummer of the Muppetshow – as a boy I always wanted to be a drummer.